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after death
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Mahendra
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: after death Reply with quote

jsk
I have heard a lot that after death people say you go to heaven or hell and I have also heard many people saying that after death you get another birth. So what is true?


JSK

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jagdish
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

All of the above are believed to be true according to the various puranas.

One is destined to experience the fruits of ones actions/thoughts/speech, etc. (Though it is said that in kaliyug only the actions count?)

Good actions lead to enjoyment in the heaven or heavenly planets and Bad actions lead to torment in hell or hellish planets and so on.

The individual experiences enjoyment in heavens or torment in hell according to their deeds (karma or karmic actions).

Once the enjoyment term (this is a fixed time according to the actions performed) is over the individual is returned back to take birth into any of the spieces of life (84 lakh ?) according to their past actions and thought at the time of death (example of King Bharat comes to mind... where in one of this births he had to come back as a deer because his mind was in deer at the time of his death).

The above is a basic summary according to my limited understanding. Please feel free to add to the above or suggest corrections.
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Pushtidas
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Well explained Jagdishji. Sweet and short.

Well come to krishnaseva Satsang Tibari Mahendrabhai, we will enjoy your experience and ardent thoughts.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Very true destiny depends on one's own KARMA.

As explained in Gita "KARMA" is the name given to the creative force that brings beings into existence.

Karma is the creative impulse out of which life's form issues, on the whole the full evolution is called and based on KARMA.
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------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,

Quote:

Once the enjoyment term (this is a fixed time according to the actions performed) is over the individual is returned back to take birth into any of the spieces of life (84 lakh ?) according to their past actions and thought at the time of death


Jagdishji, does this mean that a jeev always goes to heaven or hell first depending on his karma and than reincarnates?
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jagdish
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna

Prashant ji, I am sorry, I don't have enough knowledge/information to provide a full answer to the very interesting question you have raised.

I am of the understanding that the karmic rules apply to all jeevs according to the types of jeevs as identified in Shri Mahaprabhuji's granth "Pushti, Pravah, Maryada..." but everyone has to experience/enjoy the results of their actions in some form or another.

-- example of one of the bhagvadiya vaishnavs comes to mind where once he made a mistake and Shri Mahaprabhuji said he would only see (and hence forgive) this vaishnav after he has gone through 100,000 births (or something similar). As soon as the vaishnav heard this he was overjoyed.. that atleast Shri Mahaprabhuji had agreed to see him and forgive him. That night the vaishnav took and hence experienced that many births in his dream and hence he suffered the consequences of his actions in that way --- this is special since he was Mahaprabhuji's disciple and hence a vaishnav.

-- example of vratrasur (and the famous Vratrasur Chatuh Shloki) comes to mind.... he had to become an asur (though a very powerful devotee), because he laughed jokingly/criticisingly at Mahadevji (who is a param bhagvadiya vaishnav)...(though he did not mean it in a bad way)...

Where the Pravahi jeevs are meant to keep repeating the birth cycles for ever (unless there is very special bhagvad iccha / hari-guru-vaishnav krupa).

Then there is known to be an inter-mix between the above three "pushti maryada and pravah)

Grateful if the more experienced ones here will be able to enlighten us further.
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,
Thank you Jagdishji for some insight. Let's see if others have any additional information to share.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Just a beautiful note from Shri Tulasidas’s “Sri Rama Charita Manasa”

Laksmana : “No man is the cause of another’s joys or sorrow; all reap the fruit of their own actions. Union and separation, the experience of good and evil, friends and foes – these are but snares of delusion;birth and death, prosperity and adversity, destiny and time and all are entanglements of the world; land, home and wealth, city and household,
heaven and hell and all human affairs, all that you can see or hear or imagine in your mind, are rooted in ignorance, nothing exists in reality.

Just as in a dream a king becomes a beggar, yet on waking does not lose anything, so must you look upon this phenomenal world. Reasoning this, be not angry nor vainly attribute blame to any; for all are slumbering in the night of delusion and while asleep they see the dreams of many kinds.
In this night of mundane existence it is the holy men who keep awake; holy men who are in quest of the highest truth and detach themselves from unreality.

Then only may a soul be regarded as waking in his world when it renounces every sensual enjoyment. It is only when true discernment dawns that the errors of delusion disappear, and then (with the coming of spiritual enlightenment) is born devotion to the lotus feet of Lord Rama.

This is the highest spiritual wisdom; to be devoted to the feet of Rama in thought, word and deed. Rama is no other than the Supreme Reality, incomprehensible, imperceptible, beginningless, incomparable,
unchangeable and beyond all diversity.

Ramachandra, the gracious Lord, takes human form and plays the part of a man for the well-being of His devotees, and of earth, brahmans and cows.
On hearing His pastimes, all the worldly snares are broken.
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------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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Dattubhai
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAY SHRI KRISHNA.
In Shrimad Bhagvat it is very well discribed about rebirth in Bharatmuni's charitra.He was muni and he saved a deer and in the next birth Bharatmuni born as deer and due to his Tap he was again took birth in Bhramin's house and acted like JADBHARAT means stayed aloof from family.He was librated in third birth.
It gives us lesson whatever you will do in current life your next birth will be accordingly.
Dattubhai.
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Vasant Punjabi
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shri Krishna,

Quote from Gita 8:16

"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all
are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But
one who attains to My abode, O son of Kunti, never takes birth again. "
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"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----
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Mahendra
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSK

Thanks a lot for giving me gnan, learnt a vast amount

JSK

Mahendra
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Sital
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna

Very Interesting questions, this is a very broad subject and allows us to discuss various aspects. God’s creation formed from his desire to play, as a result he created various places such as earth, hellish & heaven planets, his own spiritual abode. At the same time he created many types of souls. This play would be uninteresting if all were the same and had only one destination, hence souls have separate purposes.

Moksh and Fal fall under this topic; Pusthidasji has covered this very well in the Balbodh

JSK
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vallabhdas
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Sri Krishna,

Mahendraji and Prashantji,

In Hindu culture I believe, Heaven and Hell are "states of being" and not actually places. The "place" concept is that of the Christians and the Muslims. Because they do not believe in rebirth. For them, this is the life. Whatever actions you do in this life, you shall be judged on the basis of that on the "Jugdement Day" or the "Kayamat" and be sent to Heaven or Hell. So for them, there are specific places called as Heaven and Hell.

There's a difference between Hindu and the Christian/Muslim concepts...

For the Vedic Culture, we have these 84 lakh yonies (species).

I'll better explain you with an example to get a clear understanding.

But before that....something to be made a note of....in Gitaji, Lord says that the effects of Karma can be enjoyed/suffered in this very birth or births hereafter. i.e. Good/bad karma can be offsetted in this very birth or it can even accumulated over many births and gradually balanced.
(I m sorry that I cannot quote the exact verse..as right now I do not have a copy of Gitaji)

So for the actions that you do, you enjoy its fruits...some here...some in the next births, depending upon type of your actions. In fact, in what yonie your next birth shall be in, is defined by your actions in the present birth...as is evident from the example of Bharat taht Jagdishji has given.

For example, if one is a wife-beater, drunkard, gambler, he shall be born in the yonie of a chandaal (a dog-eater). If he has done good deeds, he may enjoy good wealth, family, etc in this birth or thereafter. If he is a kshatriya and has performed lot of religious acts, he may be born as a brahmin in his next birth. And so on.....

So in what state he has landed himself on the basis of his actions, that is "Swarg or Nark" or "Heaven or Hell". That state...he can be in.... in his present birth or births thereafter. He may be at any place.....

I hope I am able to clear your doubt with the limited knowledge that I have with His grace. Please correct me wherever you feel I may be wrong....
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Prashant
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Shree Krishna,
Thank you Vallabhdasji for the explanation. I quite often wonder what is God's role in this whole theory of karma?
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vallabhdas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jai Sri Krishna,

Prashantji, the "Theory" of Karma is rather "Law" of Karma...

Law: (dictionary meaning) a statement of a relation or sequence of phenomena invariable under the same conditions.

Examples: Newton's Laws of Motion, Law of Gravitation, etc

So Laws are like computer programs, a set of rules. Whatsoever or whosoever enters its horizons, comes under its effect.
For example: Law of gravitation says that bodies (not the physical body... its a term of Physics for objects) having certain weight get attracted to another bodies by a force (force of gravitation). So every body obeys the law. All planets revolve around sun because of that law. Moon revolves around earth because of that law. And comets that would come from faraway, will also follow that law when it comes near sun.

So Laws govern the universe. And whatsoever falls under the defined conditions/rules of the law, have to follow it.

Prashantji wrote:
Quote:
I quite often wonder what is God's role in this whole theory


Who has programmed these Laws? Thakorji ! Thats His role.....He is the programmer Laughing

He has made all the laws so that most of the things would keep on happening on their own and he need not pay attention to every small
thing and He can focus on other big things like doing various leelas. Wink

As quoted above, there are a set of rules which make up a law.

That of Karma is also a "Law" which says "what you sow..so shall you reap" (precise form of the law)

And on whom is the law applicable? Everyone..... whoever does action......he is going to have a reaction for his action. There is no escape from it.

However....there's a trick.

Kindly read the bold words again. It says "whoever does" .....that means if the whoever is responsible for the action......will get a reaction

For samarpit jeevs, we surrender all our actions to Thakorji....
so the "law" is not applicable on us. We do not fit in the defined set of rules which requires the doer to take responsibility. When we do all aur action only for Thakorji...that is the only way to break the "Law".....

One can never stop doing action. Its impossible ! So he cannot break the law and come out. Even if the action is done for anyone else (selfless), still the Law holds true. Only in the case of Thakorji, the actions surrendered to Him and done for Him, the "doer responsibilty" gets vanished from the actions....rendering the law unapplicable.

I hope the explaination has not become too technical... Very Happy
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