Krishna Seva

[Dattubhai]

JAY SHRI KRISHNA.
What is the relation between MANA and ATAMA. Body is left in the world and is destroyed.Atama is inactive.Are Mana and Atama same?
Please write your views.
Dattubhai
_________________
Jay Shri Krishna.

[Sital]

Jai Shree Krishna,

Not sure if this is correct but I think that you need to use your mind to get to your soul, above the mind is your intelligence and its vital to use it to reach the soul.

JSK
_________________
Madhurkomalkant padavali namami
Sital

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

Soul (Atama) is a part and parcel of the Supreme God Shri Krishna

Mind (Mana) is the instrument to take us there.

Hence Mana and Atama are not same

The soul is inconceivable by our material mind.

Because the mind itself is made from matter it cannot perceive something which is not material.

But we know from the scriptures the magnitude of the soul
and that it is full of Sat (Truth), Chit (Consciousness) and Aanand
(Bliss) which is fully transcendental and can be realised only when we are involved in (our mind with) pure devotional service of Shri Krishna.

Hence when we use the mind for devotional purposes our bij bhav gets stronger and leads us closer to our Shri Thakurji.

Please read this shlok from bhagwad Gita Chapter 18 shlok 65

Translation

Shri Krishna is telling Arjuna

Give your mind to Me, be devoted to Me, worship Me and bow to Me.
Doing so you will come to Me alone. I truly promise you. etc.
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Dattubhai]

Jay Shri Krishna,
Vasantbhai, I disagree with you about Mana is made up of Material.
If it was made of material then it should be subjected to physical changes like getting older,or infected or can be cured by medicine and it would have shape and particular place in the body.
Shri Krishna would not have ask for it 'give your mind to me'
As you said Atama (soul) is made up of SAT, CHIT,AND ANANAD and Transcendetal then why it has rebirth? Why it has to take help of mind and body to reach Shri Krishna.Why it is having bondage of KARMA.
It is also said
1)MANAH EVAM MANUSHYANAM BANDHAN MOKSHAY KARNA

2) ANTE YA MATI SA GATI.
What I have understood that not only soul but whole universe is a part and parcel of VIRAT PURUSH. SHRI KRISHNA IS above Virat Purush.
After death ATAMA and SUKSHMA MANA leave body and take new birth
according to his KARMA.This is well explained in Shrimad Bhagvadji in the
Bharat Muni's Akhyan.
I have expressed my thoughts.It may be wrong.
Dattubhai
_________________
Jay Shri Krishna.

[unnati]

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Dattubhai, Hope this link may be helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mind
_________________
Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....
Unnati M. Kadakia

[Dattubhai]

Jay Shri Krishna.Unnatiji.

Thanks for send link address.It is very informative and requires time to go through.

Dattubhai.
_________________
Jay Shri Krishna.

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna

Dattubhai these are my views

Re medicine well there are some medicines which effect the mind

We know that the mind can really control the body so people with gambling habits are given medicine which is very successful and it is a latest technology which is developed in USA which makes them get away from that habit.
So the mind can be controlled with medicine but atama cannot be controlled.

Also sometimes there are worries in the mind, or it is full of stress then even if your body is tired you cannot get sleep but if you take a sleeping tablet it relaxes your mind and you can get sleep so the medicine works and as one gets old mind does not function fast and also it becomes forgetful.

Let’s take an example of the mind.
Well what happens if the blood circulation is stopped or if oxygen is stopped to the brain the mind also goes blank and the person is paralyzed why?

Once this mind is not functional the other parts of body also stop getting orders and the hands and legs stop moving while the person is still conscious and soul is still active as the person is still living but is called brain dead (that is without functional mind)

Also Dattuhbhai I like to know if animals have a mind and how does it function can they distinguish between right and wrong etc?

Also I do not want to discuss the Sankhya system of philosophy which is discussed at large in Shrimad Bhagwad which differentiates Matter from Spirit but please do read.

It is the spirit that is all knowledge, transcendent, unconnected with the three gunas and absolutely pure untainted by Maya SB chap X dis 47.30/31/32

Atama is just a witness to everything it is a part of super soul.

Re your words
Shri Krishna would not have ask for it 'give your mind to me'

Could you then please write the shlok 65 0f chapter 18 in Bhagwad Gita and also translate for us so we can all understand.

Also,

BHAGAVAD-GITA 2:29

ascarya-vat pasyati kascid enam
ascarya-vad vadati tathaiva canyah
ascarya-vac cainam anyah srnoti
srutvapy enam veda na caiva kascit


TRANSLATION

Some look at the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and
some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about
him, cannot understand him at all.

To accept Krishna as The Supreme Personality of Godhead (Krishnas Tu
Bhagavaan Swayam - SB 1.3.28 -

[ Naayam Aaatma Pravachenana Labhya
Na Medhayaa Na Bauhdha Shrutena
Yam Evaisa Vrnute Tena Labhyas
Tasyaisa Aatma Vivrnute Tanum Svaam

"This Supreme Self cannot be reached by argumentation, or by applying
one's independent brain power, or by studying many scriptures. Rather,
he alone can achieve the Supreme Lord whom the Lord chooses to favor.
To that person the Lord reveals His own true, personal form."
(Mundaka Upanisad 3.2.4 / Katha Upanisad 1.2.23) ]
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[kavita]

jai sri krishna.

very intresting chapter vasantji. learning a lot . thanks a lot.
_________________
Jai Shree Krishna
Kavita Bhatia

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

Here is a quote from Katha Upanishad

"Think of the soul as the master of the chariot. The body is the
chariot itself, the faculty of reason is the rider, and the mind is the
reins. The senses are the horses, and desires are the roads on which they travel.

When the master of the chariot has full control of the chariot, the rider, the reins and the horses, then the chariot moves swiftly and smoothly.

In the same way, when the soul controls the body, the
mind and the senses, then life is joyful and happy. But when the master
lacks control, the horses run wild. In the same way, when the body, the
mind and the senses are not controlled by the soul, there is misery and
suffering."

(Katha Upanishad 3: 3-7)
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Dattubhai]

JAY SHRI KRISHNA,
Thank you.Vasantbhai, for giving quatos from Gitaji and Katha Upanishad.
As I do not know sanskrit for shlok 65 of chapter18 in Bhagvad Gita I refered ISKCON'S A.C.PRABHUPADJI'S Bhagvad Gita as it is.
which read as follows.
"Always think of ME and become MY devotee.Worship Me.Offer your homage unto Me.Then you will come to Me without fail.I promise you this because you are my very dear friend".
To me there is great confusion about you described treatment for Mana which means BRAIN AND MANA ARE SAME.
It is also said that ATAMA is inactive and do nothing,means it does not stop or ask to do anything.
If you agree to this inthat case what is said in Katha Upnishad about soul is relates MANA AS PART OF SOUL through which soul can be in full control of chariot .
I am expressing my thoughts and it may be totally wrong.I have put up this question to have guidence.
Dattubhai.
_________________
Jay Shri Krishna.

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

This is how the animals mind function in short.

It is said in vedas and many other supporting scriptures "jIvO jIvasya jIvanam", meaning one living entity lives by eating the other. That is nature's law, carried out by the external energy of the Supreme Lord.

This is fine with the animal species, because their consciousness is not fully developed. Infact, they do not even realize they are animals. For example, a lion does not understand he is is called a "lion". That is their state of being. Whereas a human being is much more advanced in his consciousness. He can understand the pains and pleasures of his fellow beings. Whereas, a lion or any other beast living upon other animals, cannot understand that when he eats another animal, that animal feels pain and suffers!! This is the difference between humans and animals.

The summary is this. The acts of eating, sleeping, fearing and mating is common to both the human beings and animals. But since humans are advanced in their level of thinking, feeling and willing, he should understand what he is, why he is suffering etc and should not indulge in the acts of killing or even murdering other humans beings.

To clarify further, when a dog eats a cat, when a cat eats a mouse, or even when a mouse feed upon some other creature, it is said they are not inflicted by the sinful reactions of feeding upon others. Because they are under nature's direct care and supervision and that they are evolving into higher statuses of bodies, during each transmigration, they dont have what is called as "sinful reactions" - says the scriptures. Ofcourse everything is happening under Krishna's supreme vigilance.

More on other topics will be continued soon
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

This quote is from Shrimad Bhagwad

The spirit is all knowledge, transcendent, unconnected with the three Gunas and absolutely pure untainted by Maya. It is experienced through the various states of mind Wakefulness, the dream state and deep sleep brought about by Maya.

Remaining vigilant all the time one should therefore control that mind through which one conceives the various objects of sense (sound, touch, sight, taste and smell)
Though unreal like one who, when awake, recalls the object seen in a dream and seizes the senses in the eyes of the wise the teachings of the Vedas

For further please also read the Sankhya system of philosophy (which differentiates Matter from the Spirit) renunciation, suffering hardships for the sake of one’s faith, subjugation of one’s senses and truthfulness have their goal in mind control even as rivers terminate in the ocean.

Shri Hari who is the soul of the universe and gives Himself away to his devotees but first the disciple should learn detachment of the mind from all objects including body, children etc. and pure attachment to Lord’s devotees and cherish all compassion with inferiors, equals superiors etc.

The notion of “I” and “mine“ which is the root of sorrow pervades the mind hence the mind has to be under total control. The Jiva, however is conclusively known to be distinct from them as being only their witness.

Not only does the illusory energy of the Supreme Shri Krishna act on the conditioned soul within this material world, but sometimes it also acts on the most advanced learned scholars, who factually know the constitutional position of this material world through realization. As soon as someone thinks, "I am this material body (aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]) and everything in relationship with this material body is mine," he is in illusion (moha). This illusion caused by the material energy acts especially on the conditioned souls, but it sometimes also acts on liberated souls as well.

A liberated soul is a person who has sufficient knowledge of this material world and is therefore unattached to the bodily conception of life. But because of association with the modes of material nature for a very long time, even liberated souls sometimes become captivated by the illusory energy due to inattentiveness in the transcendental position. Therefore Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad-gItA (7.14), mAm eva ye prapadyante mAyAm etAm taranti te: "Only those who surrender unto Me can overcome the influence of the material energy."

Therefore no one should think of himself as a liberated person immune to the influence of mAyA. Everyone should very cautiously execute devotional service by rigidly following regulative principles. Thus he will remain fixed at the lotus feet of the Lord. Otherwise, a little inattention will create havoc. We have already seen an example of this in the case of MahArAja Bharata. MahArAja Bharata was undoubtedly a great devotee, but because he turned his attention slightly toward a small deer, he had to suffer two more births, one as a deer and another as the brAhmaNa Jada Bharata. Afterward he was liberated and went back home, back to Vaikunth.

The Lord is always prepared to excuse His devotee, but if a devotee takes advantage of the Lord's leniency and purposefully commits mistakes again and again, the Lord will certainly punish him by letting him fall down into the clutches of the illusory energy. In other words, theoretical knowledge acquired by studying the Vedas is insufficient to protect one from the clutches of mAyA. One must strongly adhere to the lotus feet of the Lord in devotional service. Then one's position is secure.
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Vasant Punjabi]

Jai Shri Krishna,

One very important shlok from Bhagwad Gita words spoken by Shri Krishna

Chapter 15 shlok 7 (last 2 lines)

Manah sasthanindriyani

mind, the sixth, and the other senses

(the senses, the sixth of which is the mind.)

prakrtisthani karsati meaning

"That (meaning mind also) existing in material nature"

Hence, Mind in Gita psychology, is regarded as the sixth sense.

Next shlok is very beautifully explained which really confuses even the experts so will just write the english meaning.

"Whatever body the "atman" enters and from whatever body it departs, it will always retain those senses with the subtile elements and roam with them as the breeze roams with odors which it has carried from their original abodes"

Hence the conclusion :- which is as follows

Thus , apparently, the "atman" is not totally devoid of characteristics between one incarnation and another.

Hope it is clear now.
_________________
Vasant Punjabi.

"Shri Vallabh Shri Vithal Sukh-kari naa-me nishpap thai nur-nari,
------Nitya Lila nitya nautam shruti na pame par."----

[Pushtidas]

Jai Shree Krishna

Atma (soul) mind (mana) are they seperate entity or are they connected? If they are connected, then what is a common link of connection? What is the relation with soul? Is soul indpendent from mana (mind)?

All above questions when tackled seperately and then in the end look at global combination then perhaps we will be able to answer the question with justice.

Dattubhai your question is very interesting and also very probing. It is not easy to answer in a short form, we need to fall back on Shree Geetaji, Shreemad Bhagvatji and Purans and also we have Shree Mahaprabhuji's thoughts on Atma and mana.
_________________
Dasa nu das
Pushtidas